Without a doubt, Günther Groissböck was the first and the most vociferous among the artists to voice unabashed criticism of the lockdown waves sweeping us in 20-21. While most artists kept their lips sealed, he talked about the artificial psychosis of fear, the erosion of our fundamental rights, the complicity of the media, the censorship of all dissident voices. For that courage, history will reward him.
On the eve of that crisis, when his Wotan debut in Bayreuth was still on the rise, he gave this interview to Das Theatermagazin : a conversation about the challenge to singing Wotan, about his great predecessor John Tomlinson, about #MeToo and the pendulum swing in opera interpretation. As Wotan, he can be experienced in Budapest next summer.
Interview : Gerard Persché
With Liszt/Pogner, with the Landgrave, Fasolt and Gurnemanz, you have already left distinctive traces on the Green Hill. From 2020 on, your footprint there will be even bigger. When did you know that you would be singing Wotan in the new Bayreuth "Ring"?
I was first confronted with the idea in the spring of 2014, which is when I began to study the character and part intensively. In August 2015, between the "Rosenkavalier" performances in Salzburg, I went to Bayreuth for an audition, which Katharina Wagner took together with Christian Thielemann. I quickly had the feeling that this was going to be something substantial; by the end of August 2015, I knew for sure.
With your powerful bass, you will be a Wotan in the tradition of John Tomlinson, who sang this role in the Barenboim-Kupfer "Ring."
The story with Tomlinson is a curious one; I have to elaborate a bit: my grandmother was in Bayreuth with the labor service during World War II, and at home in Waidhofen she always told me about her experiences, especially about the Festspielhaus and the tours there. When I started singing in 1996, she wrote directly to Wolfgang Wagner: "My grandson is starting to sing and would be insanely happy if he could see a performance in Bayreuth one day." And sure enough, Mr. Wagner sent her a ticket for "Parsifal." I went there quite proudly; John Tomlinson was the Gurnemanz at that time, and I can still remember very well his first notes: "Hey! Ho! Waldhüter ihr ..." Boah, I thought, I want to do that too. Last summer, when I sang Gurnemanz myself, I see a bearded man standing in the wings during the last performance and I was thinking he looked like Tomlinson. I go to the dressing room afterwards, take off my makeup - and suddenly there's a knock at the door; he's standing there, congratulating me and saying, "I've heard about your plans and could tell you a thing or two." Totally nice. We want to meet in October, probably in Dresden. I feel absolutely ennobled to hopefully carry on the Tomlinson-Wotan tradition somehow.
Tomlinson seemed to struggle with the height at times - though that could also pass as a coherent expression of Wotan's inner doubt.
One should, of course, manage these "inner doubts" so that they have a certain sound aesthetic and still sound healthy despite anger or despair. Wagner writes "high bass" and not "lazy baritone" - so he decidedly wants a voice that has to struggle a bit, so that one can feel the turmoil of the character. For example, in the outbursts of the second act of "Walküre," where Wotan really lets it all out. Nikolaus Harnoncourt once said of the Count of Figaro that the role should tend to be cast heavier, so that the "e giubilar mi fa" doesn't sound like a loose coloratura, but that you really hear this man almost bursting with jealousy. And that is exactly what it should be with Wotan in the passages mentioned. He must sweat out this negative energy, this wanting to destroy the world, the "Fahre denn hin, herrische Pracht". Between the notes, an almost nihilistic gesture should be heard: "I don't care about all that, I'll burn it all down". With Tomlinson it came out exactly like that. You could tell that he was fighting, but that was also the spectacular thing about him. In short: Within the bounds of what is technically reasonable and voice-hygienically healthy, these phrases are allowed to hurt oneself.
What would be your favorite passage? "Der Augen leuchtendes Paar"?
Actually, the passage a few pages before, where Wotan sings: "Da labte süß dich, selige Lust ...", and in doing so Brünnhilde actually says: You've seen through me, but I can't help it. This is even more beautiful than the " Farewell ", goes even more to the heart. At least to me.
Wotan is not an alpha male, but rather an ambivalent, hesitant, scrupulous figure.
In the course of the "Ring" one sees him confronted with a fait accompli; he actually had the really glorious times before the "Rheingold". After that, he is trapped in his contracts; basically, it's just a matter of getting out of the mess as unscathed as possible. Already from the moment when Wotan wakes up and sings his first phrase - "Der Wonne seligen Saal bewachen mir Tür und Tor" - Fricka brings him back to reality with her words "Auf, aus der Träume wonnigem Trug"; from then on, he is confronted only with problems and reproaches - for example, with the question of how he really wants to pay Valhalla now. We do not get to know the man of great creative visions anymore.
In this, he is reminiscent of Don Giovanni; after the D minor chords of the overture, he hardly succeeds in anything.
With both figures, one is confronted with a character into which one virtually steps right in the middle. One would like to know how exactly it was before - simply in order to get closer to the type of character. But you go from zero to one hundred and immediately have to deal with someone who does his business by all means, and not always quite kosher. Wotan is so full of contradictions that it's simply difficult to grasp and describe him.
Who would you like to see direct the production? Rumor has it that Tatjana Gürbaca was mentioned, who made a splash last year with her "Ring-Essence" at the Theater an der Wien.
(grins) I know who will do it, but I'm not allowed to say officially yet.
Of course, Festival Director Katharina Wagner has to do that. And who will conduct?
We would already have a conductor, but now the modern "Holy Inquisition" has him in its sights.
"Holy Inquisition?" You mean the #MeToo campaigns?
A highly problematic matter, because so much is inaccurate. No question: if something wrong has happened and is proven, it must be pointed out and punished with the appropriate consequence. But the fact that rumors on Facebook or Twitter are enough to destroy people's lives is intolerable. In the social media, a kind of "victim industry" is apparently also establishing itself in this context; the sense of justice and fairness has unfortunately completely shifted in the media - and this does not only refer to the social ones. This applies, by the way, not only to #MeToo, but in general to the all-too-free handling of questionable "truth", but also to pseudo-moral superiority of all kinds. We need to find basic social rules, chains of evidence, a procedure based on the rule of law; it is absolutely inadmissible for someone to be bullied and destroyed by rumors on the Internet. This kind of thing is highly dangerous for all of us; in my opinion, we are unfortunately moving more and more in the direction of a hysterical society of denouncers.
Could these phenomena be countered through art? And can walls still be torn down with pedagogical-political statements?
Art can at best help to broaden perspectives, perhaps even to form opinions. But I am skeptical whether it is actually effective. Moreover, a certain trend reversal seems to have been reached. Many have grown tired of all the interpretations and "messages" and long for the works themselves to be the focus again, for there to be more room for one's own imagination, one's own thought images. In other words, that the overly clear, often moralistic pointing finger is given a break.
Would Peter Konwitschny agree with you?
His way of directing was definitely necessary. But you also have to see the whole affair from the contemporary historical context of the younger directing tradition. In his own way, Konwitschny is as important for the opera scene as Harnoncourt was for music - as a new approach. Only there were many freeloaders who thought they would succeed by imitating Konwitschny. And at some point, something like that goes in the wrong direction. At the moment, political-pedagogical theater is perhaps a bit stale. But these phases are like changing tides; after all, they also exist in music-making practice. Just think of Karl Richter: with him, the "St. Matthew Passion" was almost as long as the "Tristan," broad and lush and so conceived in terms of sound that one said to oneself: a bit more rhetoric would be fine. And then, with and after Harnoncourt, the pendulum swung to the other side, one would have wished for a bit more meat occasionally. But to be able to experience both gives one the chance to seek the path to the utopia of the perfect whole. As lush a sound as possible with the greatest possible rhetorical statement. Or scenically, the most beautiful, most coherent images and behind them the most intelligent message. That would be the ideal.
You mean faithfulness to the original?
Every intelligent reinterpretation that takes a work seriously and enriches it - think of Stefan Herheim's wonderful "Parsifal" production in Bayreuth, for example - has its justification and also remains true to the work. But if one is not able to create something really substantial, one should trust what the author's will dictates.
Your most important teacher at the Vienna University of Music and Performing Arts was Robert Holl ...
A great Hans Sachs in Bayreuth, and quite a great pedagogue. At the same time incredibly low profile, there is hardly anybody more unpretentious. For me, at the time of my studies in Vienna, it was simply important to get feedback or confirmation from people who were my role models that I was developing in the direction I wanted. And in this sense, Holl has always given me security with his completely natural manner. To experience his voice live in the room when we were working on the last bass aria from the St. Matthew Passion, for example, was extraordinary. Suddenly you experience it not only on CD, but right next to you - you somehow flip a switch and realize that this is now not fiction, but reality.
The ancient Romans spoke of a healthy mind in a healthy body, modern times call it fitness. You are, if I may call it that, a fitness fanatic. At the age of 18, you already participated in the Berlin Marathon.
When I was 14, I even ran in Vienna once. Unfortunately, I never got under three hours, which still pisses me off today. Sport is incredibly important from a psycho-hygienic point of view; you can really clean out the stress hormones, all those synapses and short circuits that build up in everyday life. And apart from the meditative aspect, sport is also good for your physical health. In addition, for me, singing is also athletic, and with fitness you simply have a head start. When I think of the first "Rosenkavalier" act, for example, where I'm pretty much rushing around as Ochs auf Lerchenau and never really catch my breath, then possibly have to sing the monologue in the uncut version and at the end have to endure the low f for eight or nine bars: It's no disadvantage if the body is in good shape. Before the "Rosenkavalier" performances in Salzburg, I always rode my bike for about an hour in the direction of Untersberg. At Fürstenbrunn there is a steep climb of over 20 percent, which raises the pulse rate to 170 - that was exactly the right preparation for the performances, because it wakes up the diaphragm and makes it work hard.
Are there any desired roles outside the Wagner repertoire?
Absolutely, and they're coming up my alley in the next few years: Fiesco, for example, or Phillip II - where, I can't say yet. A dream role would also be Claggart in Britten's "Billy Budd". A brilliant piece! Hardly any other piece makes us feel hopelessness in such an extreme way. Otherwise, of course, there are some parts that I would love to sing, but somehow seem to pass me by, especially in Mozart. In that context, there's obviously the problem that at a certain time you weren't mature enough for it - and suddenly you're somehow beyond that.
Beyond Don Giovanni, too?
I would love to sing that, of course. But also Leporello. But someone would have to have the courage to take a risk - in terms of vocal sound and voice weight, and also in terms of tempi that would be adequate for my heavier voice. That would certainly work, and it would also sound good.